FOR SUNDAY EUCHARIST TO DO WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO, IN GENERAL OUR MASS STYLE MUST. . . [FOR EXAMPLE: MORE FLEXIBLE, ENGAGING, INCLUSIVE]
Inclusive because Jesus was
What does inclusive mean? All feel comfortable- keep Eucharist solid and transcendent but more available and welcoming to outside Catholics and non-Catholics for potential evangelization.
Constantly changing- avoid being stuck
Must be able to hear through many/ spirit speaks
Energetic- play to the strengths to promote retention
Open to change/ but change must come from us.
Most be refreshing: community and Ritual
Holy, Prayerful, worshipful and Catholic
Simple – Visitors, (sparial?? ) should not have to explain
Holy avoid combat zone/ to explain provide respite
Have all of us present in a sacred way/ not dictated to / we should plan
Must have substance/ Open, inclusive and joyful
Promote unity and build people of God unified in movement and what they were doing.
Humanness.
The theme seems to be a desire for oneness. This should be close family that involves all its diverse members i.e., standers, children, men and women lay and consecrated. That tensions should be voiced, but not in a divisive way. The character of its community must be evident in the liturgy. We should develop a liturgy that is routine so the order of the routine is not distracting.
Not be divisive- politics out of Eucharist
When there is tension it be a building tension
Uplifting, welcoming. solemn, joyous, respective in modern and conservative worship
Challenging homilies
More structure, too loose (traditional or not)
Respectful
Liturgy led by pastor and Holy Spirit, trusted to use pastor to lead us to a community where all of our gifts are included
Challenging homilies
Two things add to length - when it takes long to get back after kiss of peace and when choir goes on and on, no one wants to shorten or limit these,
Don’t repeat what is in the bulletin- just highlight
Concise and meaningful
Mass should begin on time and people should come in, in a way that is not disruptive to the service.
Parishioners should be punctual
Time how does it all fit together? Masses of 2.5 hours pushes people away
Call to worship, long homilies, and long announcements at end, too much messaging no message. Don’t need long homilies when we have laity to bring people together especially children
Need more structure (does not mean traditional)
Structure is that of the Catholic church- Christ comes first broad community comes into being in specifics
Reverence is important. Mass is not time for socializing.
Community - is valued, but sense that we are most united to others through
God. Changes are appreciated for greater
reverence. I would want to knell, prostrate before the transubstantiated God.
It is not Fr. Murray alone but Fr. Clifford and
Many going in Catholic Church for 10-40 years. What is unique about St. Al’s?
Only one wherever we’ve lived. What’s good here is its inclusiveness. Many people feel comfortable here. Place may shrink if it losses its inclusiveness. This is the last stop for people who are comfortable here.
Community- standing on the altar, identity expressed within, find ways to … be reverent
Building community, us to community of prayer faith and justice
Unity in our practice so that liturgy unites our community
This is not a community of strangers, contrary to the newsletter.
Young people, teenagers need to be more involved.
Some of us have not had the chance to interact more with community.
Education - More education. Explain what we are doing and why every so often/
We want to understand our liturgy
o
LITURGY
OF THE WORD
§
General
Intercessions
Intercessory prayers to distracting
Need to address Kathy Boylan, related to Intercessions. Kathy speaks in an authentic Christian voice. Why shut this down?
Prayers of the faithful have changed dramatically in format, eliminating the possibility of people praying openly from their hearts.
Appreciates openness in prayer of the faithful.
o
LITURGY
OF THE EUCHARIST
The way we’ve done liturgy at St Aloysius is different from anyplace else and is what has drawn people here. Some things are lost for example, time for reflection after communion, no time for contemplation, respectful times..
Fr. Clifford wants the traditional
Liturgy led by the Holy Spirit thorough the Pastor. Pastor is entrusted to lead us to a community where all of our gifts are included.
Preparation for the liturgy, inclusive process. Gifts of community haven’t been listened to, Liturgical changes without (annovn) cement or understanding of the meaning of the way it was. There is value in some changes. Women with liturgical and ?? not included. We have gone from community based planning to change imposed from outside. For Eucharist to be Eucharist focus on us and Jesus, not on pastor.
Need greater reverence.
Purpose of Eucharist – find God in world, Eucharist community
Eucharist requires celebratory community- Concerned that our own personal
agendas can come to seem more important thing.
Does not like people leaving because of specific things- we need to be
willing to listen to one another and respect one another. Says issue about
getting communion on the tongue- how do we respond to this, “catechesis from
Communion requires community, greeting with kiss of peace at the time near communion and not all stuck in the pews. One with Christ in the community- wants fortification of the choir, drawing together. Suggest that changes be community enhancing rather than individualizing.
Sunday Eucharist should be celebratory, involving all our senses to include - bells, art, incense…. Being Jesus and everyday life Commissioning- to action.
§ GATHERING AT THE ALTAR
Most pained not to be invited to the altar. Cares about listening and hearing what people think. Doesn’t want to feel like doing civil disobedience to go to the altar.
Worship – gathering around the altar obstructs view of others, remember we are celebrating the passion and death of Christ (peace with respect)
Feeling of connectedness. Important to stand around the altar, being close to each other’s aura’s gives feeling, energy soars to God in a way no other thing does.
Likes “closeness and intimacy”, being “part of the consecration,” Cares about the community aspect- Catholic faith is primarily about community.
Focus on suffering victims in our time- those who represent the Body of Christ. Gather around the altar, Kiss of Peace petitions, welcoming.
In gathering around the altar we are most part of the consecration. Spoke of being unable or not comfortable with going around the altar.
§
OUR
FATHER
Our Father, choir and gathering around the altar are the most different and beautiful. Like holding hands in the Lord’s Prayer, coming around the altar.
Great Amen is the “peak “it’s about us and God not me and God.
Comes to St. Al’s to be FED to live the week- feels sense of community is
precious. Prefers to hold hands it’s the “Our Father”, not the “My Father”
§
SIGN OF
PEACE
Important to have the kiss of peace at same time as normal. Kiss of Peace is community, communion.
Communion requires community, greeting with kiss of peace at the time near communion and not all stuck in the pews.
Disconcerting to do it at a time different than in other churches. Important to have at the normal time.
Sign of Peace is out of hand! Conversation at the kiss of peace is the problem. We must be more efficient on kiss of peace. But important must have sense of community
Peace sharing becomes disruptive
Keep opportunities for the laity
Notice that Eucharistic ministers no longer clean vessels after mass, just priest and
Deacon.
One way to balance would be to have laity give homilies as well
Role of women in the Church, women priest.
There is a stunning irreverence toward clergy here; though they’ve vowed celibacy and devotion to community we need to respect them.
Initially stunned by the irreverence and the noises etc., but now this atmosphere is very dear.
The more participation where we are (altime ?) feeling more fulfilled, we are still good at this
Must respect laity there continues to be strong presence of laity on the altar... feel that conservatives are pushing laity away from the altar until after consecration.
Respect modern v traditional. Remember we are celebrating the passion and death of Christ
Community sense of oneness more men involved in ministries around the altar. Like family help us to grow
Beyond Liturgy- what is the future of St. Al’s- is it sustainable? Part of the conversation we need to have – Last chance Saloon- how long? Fewer of them how do we improve liturgy? What is the future? What are our goals? Issue is being formed narrowly- but the elephant in the room is not being addressed.
What is the goal?
Financial trouble? Traditional priest?
Best way forward?
Could Hierarchy and St. Al’s could come together and influence Catholic Church.
Dialogue in better
Process for change
Build
Already done deal
So many gifts
Issues being framed beyond liturgy and future.
“The Church is the people”, the clergy should “come and listen to us and engage in dialogue’ rather than acting like they the clergy are the voice of God.
Willis’s homily and Fr Murray’s are life giving.
Clergy are trying to reestablish control and put us in boxes again. Says St. Al’s is special- sense of community, same altar.
Does not like Fr. Murray’s condescending gestures and knowing he’s the guru of the Liturgy. Also bothered by Fr. Clifford saying, “I wanted him here if I am to do anything with this parish.”
Respect and caring (missing where is Fr. J. Glenn Murray)
Priests aren’t approachable, don’t care
People see him as a threat to how we’ve always done- He may enhance, don’t see him as imposing things on us.
Leadership, (priests) must show they care about parishioners, Pastoral leadership wants them to be more approachable, show they care about parishioners (e.g. Fr. Murray) better r/n
This dialogue shows the special nature of St. Al’s the
Archdiocese of Arlington wouldn’t even have altar servers. But Church leaders
need to remember they are nothing without us. If changes all make this church
same as others he’ll sadly have to back to
Stopped reading these 4 pages – not direct- too long already decided. Issue is framed as how do we change the Liturgy. All of us need a better capacity for growth.
He is still learning St. Al’s
The 8 AM Mass starts and ends on time. Don’t like confrontation. Segregation is a concern. Are we ganging up on a black man? Divisive turning back to time when Blacks sat in the balcony. Impression obvious to folks at the 8AM mass, the lack of integration.
Why Fr. Is Glenn the object of critics? Fr. Tom is the Pastor
Why do we need to change? Change is fine, but involve community in discussion on changes if any is really needed.
Suggests that the changes could have been brought about in a better-explained way, like has the gathering about the altar changed. More dialogue.
Enrich service values
Reflect – what is broken?
Broader Question – Liturgy, Change
Fr. Murray’s presence if grating has illuminated the division in this parish because some appreciate changes others do not.
Appreciates the changes, before the changes it was always
the same. Sometimes I went home not able say what it was about- maybe
distracted by noises/child crying. In most churches it is stricter and with
changes it is easier to concentrate on what’s going on (less side-bar
distractions) Like timeliness just like being on time for work. Love’s Fr.
Glenn’s sermons- Deacon Willis’ song. She wasn’t aware before then that it was
not all Fr. Glenn motivated
There have been problems- sense of problem that is not universally understood. Was Fr. J. Glenn Murray brought in to solve a problem? Why were we not told? This is a great celebration and we risk knocking it. Core is solid
Pattern here- process not common ground not being respected. Hierarchy is at work. Relationship and partnership built first- understanding. What have we not been told?
Invasive, we are the Church. Why do we keep coming, because we find Jesus in people. Letters- issues of form and meaning in Mass (because Catholic here) certain forms that have to change is the message- concerned about how that is going to be done.
Appreciates range of diversity at St. Al’s Like heterogeneity. That should be reflected in Sunday Mass-not anxious for changes. We should wrestle with changes as living thing- not just changes imposed from above. He doesn’t want impetus to change to come externally- without us knowing where the hidden puppet master is. Wants transparency.
We are asking how we can choose to express our
spirituality. He has come from
Need a connection to the people help us to grow.
Men get more involved
Key elements in Mass as it have been celebrated?
Stop top down change.
Openness to those who think the liturgy is fine some are not. Preserve the things we want to retain the elements that are indispensable. Fr. Murray’s letters are hard to understand, most value and love shown by pastoral leadership even though these elements are precious, the process is even more important. Changes were imposed based on assumptions that proved false.